ML-Draft-035

WEBVTT 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: Hey, Dee. 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:20.000 Dee Frewert: Hello? 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:22.000 Daveed Benjamin: How are you? 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:23.000 Dee Frewert: Good. 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: I see we have… 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:29.000 Daveed Benjamin: So, do we say your name Jingyi? 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:42.000 Daveed Benjamin: We may have several people from China. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yes, from Nanjing. 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: University. 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:53.000 Daveed Benjamin: Well, awesome to see you here. Tian Kun had mentioned that. 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: Some of his students were going to be showing up, so I'm assuming that maybe you're one of them. 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: We're glad to have you here. 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay, and I see your internet is a bit spotted. 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: Understood. 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: Hey, Rick. 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.000 Daveed Benjamin: So we'll get started in a few minutes. 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: Looks like Renaud's coming. 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:18.000 Dee Frewert: It's good. 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.000 Daveed Benjamin: What's that? 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:25.000 Dee Frewert: Just a reminder to have the recording on in a minute. 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay, yeah. 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: Should I give you the co-host? 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.000 Dee Frewert: You give me, yeah, give me Co, please. 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: Or co… or… or host. Give you co, or… 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.000 Dee Frewert: Jisco. Jisco is good. 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. Okay. There you are. 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.000 Karen Michael: Good morning. 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: I can. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:49.000 Dee Frewert: Thank you. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.000 Karen Michael: How are you? 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: Hi. 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: Good, how are you? 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.000 Karen Michael: Good! 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:56.000 Karen Michael: How is the Bay Area today? 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: It is beautiful. It's, yeah, quite beautiful. Maybe you can see. 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:14.000 Karen Michael: Oh, you've got a background on, so I can only see your, um, your galaxy. Hi, Dee! 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.000 Dee Frewert: Hello. Good to see y'all. 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.000 Karen Michael: Good to see you! 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.000 Daveed Benjamin: Hey, Val. Hi, Patrick. 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: Renard, and… 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:26.000 Patrick D: Hello. 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.000 Daveed Benjamin: Someone new, Leandra. 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:36.000 Dee Frewert: I'm admitting them all. 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: Awesome. 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.000 Dee Frewert: Sarah's there. 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:40.000 Dee Frewert: Really quick. 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: Hey, Sarah. 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:43.000 Phahsa Ras: What's going on, y'all? 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:45.000 Daveed Benjamin: Hey, Fasa. 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: Greetings, Leandra. 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: Nice to see you. 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:53.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right. 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:58.000 Daveed Benjamin: Give it a little more time, you think, Dee? I guess we're just two minutes. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:03.000 Dee Frewert: Just give it another 30 seconds or so. We can start turning it on. 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:05.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay… 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:19.000 Dee Frewert: Carlos in. 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right. 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: So I guess we can start the recording now, you think? 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:33.000 Dee Frewert: Yep. 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:34.000 Dee Frewert: I shall do that. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right. Hey, Carlo. 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:41.000 Carlo Monsanto: Aye aye. 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:43.000 Daveed Benjamin: Good to see you. 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.000 Carlo Monsanto: Good to see you. 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:53.000 Daveed Benjamin: Dee, should I move forward, or… 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:51.000 Dee Frewert: Okay. 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:56.000 Dee Frewert: Yeah, let's go ahead. Just greetings, everybody. 00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:00.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, okay, I'm gonna go ahead and… 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.000 Daveed Benjamin: Share my screen in a moment. 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay, here we go. 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: Alright… 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: Can people see my screen? 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:42.000 Renad Baomar: Yes. 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.000 Daveed Benjamin: Awesome. Hey, Renat, how are you? 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:54.000 Renad Baomar: Hello, um, I couldn't attend the other meeting because I was actually traveling, and it was at the time of the flight. 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:59.000 Renad Baomar: So I couldn't attend, and I was just at an event with the UK embassy. 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:04.000 Renad Baomar: So I was busy with this two weeks with the UK embassy. That's why I could enjoy. 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay, all right. 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.000 Dee Frewert: We're… 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: Well. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.000 Dee Frewert: We're glad to have you now. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: Let's get started. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:12.000 Daveed Benjamin: Absolutely. 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yes, ma'am. 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.000 Daveed Benjamin: Today's… 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: session is called Our Noospheric Future. It's part of a three-part series called From Fragmentation to Coordination. 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: And I want to welcome those of us who are part of the first cohort of the MetaWeb certification course. 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: I hope you've all been having some fun reading the book and beginning to answer the questions. We'll talk a little bit more about the the course, the next cohort and finishing up at the end of the presentation. 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: For now, let's jump right in. 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: As I mentioned, this is part of a three part series called From Fragmentation to Coordination. The first week was from attention to agency. The second week was building the meta layer where we really focused on the. 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:20.000 Daveed Benjamin: Metal layer primitives and the different things that make the metal layer. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: Unique? 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:25.000 Daveed Benjamin: This week is our newest fear future. 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: And today we're going to we're going to talk a little bit more about the problem, what the real problem is, and that is coordination. It's not just a technology challenge that we're focusing. 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: Uh, facing? 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: We'll talk about the opportunity, and that is for us to develop a whole new layer of capabilities, a whole new layer of civilization. 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:53.000 Daveed Benjamin: We'll then go into, well, what are the ingredients? 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: And we're seeing this is… 00:07:55.000 --> 00:08:14.000 Daveed Benjamin: intentionally building infrastructure, civic infrastructure, trust infrastructure, and we're seeing that involving digital artifacts, memory stewardship, bounded AI, context, governance, among other things. And the new capabilities that we're. 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:30.000 Daveed Benjamin: wanting to bring forward with this work is for us to be able to think together, coordinate, and to remember these would be collective capabilities. And then we'll have a invitation that how people can. 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:31.000 Daveed Benjamin: Thank you. 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: finish up the course and/or get active in other ways with respect to the MetaLayer process. 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:46.000 Daveed Benjamin: Are there any questions before we jump right into the presentation? 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: I'll take that as a no. 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: There's a question that… 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: we are wanting to address with this session today. And that is, well, what kind of future are we actually trying to build? 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:15.000 Daveed Benjamin: This is a really special time. I've mentioned this a couple times, I think maybe even in the first course that. 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: For the first time ever, not only is the cost. 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:25.000 Daveed Benjamin: of creating software. 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: Trending towards zero. 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: But at the same time, not that many people realize that we have so much capability in our hands right now. 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:53.000 Daveed Benjamin: And that leaves us in a very interesting place where we can build the things that we weren't able to build before. There are things that couldn't possibly be built because. 00:09:53.000 --> 00:10:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: There wasn't a funding model for them. There wasn't a way to bring on teams and get them focused and get them building. There just wasn't a way to finance some of these projects that can now be built. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: And so. 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:20.000 Daveed Benjamin: We are now faced with this question. Well, if we can build things, what do we actually want to build? 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: So let me. 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:35.000 Daveed Benjamin: Let me ask you all another question. This is a question I'd actually love to have you all answer. 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.000 Dee Frewert: Do you want them to answer in the chat? 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: What the hell is up to me? 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: How about just raising your hands? Let me take us off screen share for a moment. So who feels optimistic about humanity's future? You can put your answer in the chat. You can raise your hand if you're. 00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:01.000 Daveed Benjamin: Visual, you can go ahead and use the reaction button. 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right. 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:14.000 Daveed Benjamin: I see one. So, Rick, the 2 optimists are optimistic. 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.000 Dee Frewert: Okay. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.000 Dee Frewert: Thank you. 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:16.000 Daveed Benjamin: It… 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay… 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: Well, so wait. 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: Is this it? There's two people? Oh, Sarah, are you feeling optimistic as well? 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:36.000 Daveed Benjamin: Not very. So Val says not very. I'd like to be more positive, but it seems… 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.000 Daveed Benjamin: Like, things are… 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: Not so great. Let me get back into the chat. Okay. Is there anyone else who said anything? Karen says optimistic with guardrails. 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:58.000 Daveed Benjamin: And Carlos says he's optimistic. So I'd like to have a couple of these optimistic people tell us what they're optimistic about, you know, 30s. 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:01.000 Daveed Benjamin: Dee or Rick? 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:14.000 Dee Frewert: I'll start. I just think that of all of the problems that have been not only identified in the book, but the things that I'm casually experiencing myself, there's a way forward. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:19.000 Dee Frewert: One, because I understand things a lot better than I did six months ago. 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:34.000 Dee Frewert: And there are technically some things that we can do, but I think our biggest hurdle, which I know that we can find a way forward, is to change how we behave, how we interact with the internet. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:42.000 Dee Frewert: And it's not just us that are the educated few, but we need to… 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:48.000 Dee Frewert: make it viral how we change our behavior. 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:52.000 Dee Frewert: And I think there's a way forward to do that. There's… 00:12:52.000 --> 00:13:09.000 Dee Frewert: methods for us to get there. But we really need to laser focus on what we have as priorities. But I'm optimistic, because there are technical ways of accomplishing what we want to do with these… 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.000 Dee Frewert: these tools. The organic. 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:19.000 Dee Frewert: changes, though, need a lot of cheerleading motivation incentives. 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:24.000 Dee Frewert: And I just feel overall there's gonna be a brighter future. 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:28.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right, let's hear from Rick, or… 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:35.000 Rick Frewert: I'll say, I'll say something. I'm only at the end of Chapter 3, and. 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:45.000 Rick Frewert: Kudos to you, David, for for writing this book, because you've covered a thousand things more than I had figured were. 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:56.000 Rick Frewert: items, if you will, relevant to this overall situation we're in. And I'm only on Chapter 3, and I've got, what, 10 more chapters to go? So it's just dazzling. 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.000 Rick Frewert: But I I think. 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:11.000 Rick Frewert: by itemizing all of these different bad things that can happen. We can. We can prioritize how to resolve a solution to that. 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:19.000 Rick Frewert: I think everything that we do in society without the Internet involves a. 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:36.000 Rick Frewert: you know, personal interaction, a a registration, you know, to driver's license to get a to drive a car, you know, and things like that. So right now, none of that exists really in the Internet. And and you even point out, you could be as fake as you want to be. But. 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:43.000 Rick Frewert: having a fake Gmail account leading to a fake Facebook account, and on and on. 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:48.000 Rick Frewert: You know, so that kind of stuff needs to be fixed. 00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:01.000 Rick Frewert: You know, we need to know who people are that are saying things. If they want to remain anonymous, then we'll have anonymous places. But, you know, generally, the internet is not an anonymous place. It's a place people rely on for… 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:16.000 Rick Frewert: a lot of business and activity and information and things like that. And for anonymous people to be able to influence what's going on, that's got to be fixed. And I think your itemization of all these things in this book is a great step towards getting that done. 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: Well, thank you. 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:23.000 Rick Frewert: And that's why I'm optimistic, because once we identify the problem, we can fix the problem. 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:30.000 Daveed Benjamin: Awesome. Thank you. Is there one more optimistic view that someone would like to bring forward? 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:35.000 Daveed Benjamin: Karen, perhaps? Okay. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.000 Carlo Monsanto: Sure. 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: Carlo? Yeah. 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:43.000 Carlo Monsanto: Yeah. As you know, I've been working on HEAL. 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:48.000 Carlo Monsanto: Our worries are different, but the objective is the same. 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:56.000 Carlo Monsanto: Where you talk about fragmentation to coordination, I speak about fragmentation to wholeness. 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:03.000 Carlo Monsanto: Yeah, and self-adaptation is part of wholeness. 00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yep. 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.000 Carlo Monsanto: Yeah, where the parts interact and just adjust. 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:11.000 Carlo Monsanto: Yeah, but it's the responsibility. 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.000 Carlo Monsanto: doesn't lie with us who want this. 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.000 Rick Frewert: Thank you. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:23.000 Carlo Monsanto: The responsibility lies on the part of the parts that form the whole. 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:26.000 Carlo Monsanto: Yeah. And, um… 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:32.000 Carlo Monsanto: So HEAL, the approach that I'm developing, I'm currently… 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:37.000 Carlo Monsanto: writing a book on Real Mode, which is an. 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:39.000 Carlo Monsanto: the language… 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:44.000 Carlo Monsanto: Aspect that extends beyond our normal. 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:47.000 Carlo Monsanto: Um, day to day… 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:49.000 Carlo Monsanto: word use. 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:54.000 Carlo Monsanto: Uh, extends, uh, inward to… 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:59.000 Carlo Monsanto: to make the inner and outer into a continuum. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:06.000 Carlo Monsanto: So wholeness in our society starts with feeling whole ourselves. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.000 Carlo Monsanto: Yep, and uh… 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:11.000 Carlo Monsanto: So to make that viral. 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:15.000 Carlo Monsanto: That is the objective that I'm striving for. 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:25.000 Carlo Monsanto: And the metal layer is very much part of that. That's also integrated in the book that we are currently writing. 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: Awesome. Okay, so we have some optimists, right? And we have some optimistic views out there, but… 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: Notice that most people are not feeling so optimistic. I see Leandra says hopeful, but not optimistic. Trepidatious. That's quite a word. Karen says optimistic with guardrails. She's written things about AGI algorithms. We'd love to see that. 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.000 Daveed Benjamin: That would be really interesting. 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: So, um… 00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:05.000 Dee Frewert: David, would you allow those that have a different point of view to make remarks on that? Because we want to know what they're concerned with. 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah! 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:06.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yes? 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: I think that's a great idea. 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:17.000 Daveed Benjamin: Would anyone like to step up and provide it? Okay. 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: I'll go. 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Okay. 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:30.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: So, my concern is the feasibility of it, because of what we're up against in order to make those guardrails and those, um, concerns that, um. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:41.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: oh gosh, Rick was mentioning with who are we really talking to, and things of that nature, because the people who basically run the internet right now profit off of. 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:52.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: our kids clicking on things that they should not click on, right? We know there's a big thing going on in the back end that has to do with, you know, exploitation of children. 00:18:52.000 --> 00:19:03.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: And, you know, profiting off of them that way. I mean, there are some kids who are flat addicted to the Fortnite bucks, the V-Bucks, the Roblox bucks, you know. 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:09.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: And so if those guardrails come up, people are going to lose money. So it's… 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: That's why I'm… 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: pessimistic about it, because… 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Of who we're up against as just us. 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:20.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: And we are the minority, but. 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:30.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: It's very challenging when you don't have, you know, billions of dollars backing you up to go against them and say, hey, enough is enough and we can't have. 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:40.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: people we don't know, you know, trying to converse with our kids and things of that nature, and also, like, our elderly parents and extorting them for Bitcoin and things like that. So, that's why. 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: I'm a little pessimistic about it, because I just… 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:49.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: feel like we're just being stomped down so that people can continue to exploit and profit. 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:54.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: So get your cape, David, go out there and uh… 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:53.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah. Okay. 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah. 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Go save us. 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:10.000 Daveed Benjamin: Thank you, Val, for that counterpoint, absolutely. Yeah, I'd like to say that I am, as well, cautiously optimistic. I think. 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:02.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: You're welcome. 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:23.000 Daveed Benjamin: that there's a lot of tools that we have at our avail now, and that AI is one of them. It's double edged, of course, but. 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:29.000 Daveed Benjamin: At the same time, I think that we're starting to see some pathways. 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:34.000 Daveed Benjamin: towards a… a future that we want, and… 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: We need to figure out what we want to build, though, right? That goes back to this question, what kind of future are we trying to build? 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: So, I'd like to… 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: I think we'll go through this a little quicker than I had initially thought we might, um… 00:20:51.000 --> 00:21:06.000 Daveed Benjamin: but let's do this popcorn style as a group. I'd love to hear from all of you, maybe once, and yet very quickly, what are the three most important things, or what is something that you all think. 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: Humanity must do together to reach in an optimistic future, whatever you see that optimistic future to be, even if you're not optimistic, but if you were to think about a, let's say, a pro-social future. 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: What are the… 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: Things. What are one thing? 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: that we must do together to get to that pro-social future. 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: Just popcorn. Who's got an answer? 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:41.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Communicate. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.000 Daveed Benjamin: Communicate. Okay, great. Another? 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.000 Rick Frewert: I think we need to… 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.000 Sara Pascual: I think practicing community, oh. 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay, what was the first one? Go say that one. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.000 Rick Frewert: I was gonna say, we need to, um… 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:02.000 Rick Frewert: keep AI from leading to the Terminator situation. 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. Great. And what's… well, there was another one. Someone else was speaking as well. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:17.000 Sara Pascual: Yeah, I think it's practicing this with community, finding community building. 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:20.000 Sara Pascual: Um, those numbers to be able to actually… 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:26.000 Sara Pascual: make an impact. We can't do it alone. 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:32.000 Sara Pascual: And so doing it together, understanding that people have are walking towards the same vision. 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.000 Sara Pascual: We all see that there's a gap. 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:49.000 Sara Pascual: we're needed. And we're just really like at the cutting edge of like where we can really innovate by your standard by how you open up the call talking about. We're at a time where you know we can develop software with little to no money and stuff. It's just. 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.000 Sara Pascual: Primed for opportunity. 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:58.000 Daveed Benjamin: Thank you. So coordination is another way of saying what you said. 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.000 Daveed Benjamin: At least that's what I heard. 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: What's… 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.000 Daveed Benjamin: Are there some other things? 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.000 Daveed Benjamin: Come on, listen. 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.000 Leandra Preston: I will… 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:18.000 Dee Frewert: I think eliminating cancer, you know, when we see it pop up, we should not be so forgiving and allow other doors to be open for that same cancer to take root. 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.000 Leandra Preston: I would say. 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.000 Dee Frewert: Need to be able to shut that down and. 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.000 Dee Frewert: not allow it again. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: So we've got some other ones in the chat. I see different ways to interact with resources, new economic systems. Invest in education and empower young people so every person has the opportunity to innovate, lead, and create positive change. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.000 Rick Frewert: Excuse me. 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: Respect each other from FASA. The previous one was from Renat. The one before that was Karen. Then Leandra says shift power from corporations to people. Renat again says work together across cultures and borders to solve global problems. 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:11.000 Daveed Benjamin: Challenges through cooperation, empathy, and shared responsibility. Micah says, invest in people and the planet, quality education, accessible healthcare, environmental sustainability, and equal opportunities. And what I want you all to notice. 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: is that… 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: These are not technology problems, right? These are actually, I mean, for a large part. 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: What's going on? I'm trying to see… 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.000 Rick Frewert: Mm-hmm. 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:28.000 Daveed Benjamin: Sorry about this. Trying to get my. 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: Slide share back up. Here we go. 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: we had… we had a number of different things, coordination, um, cooperation, stopping cancer, uh, shifting from people to… the power from corporations to people. All of these things. 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: Well, they're not simply technology problems. These are… 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: Coordination problems. 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:58.000 Micah Nyatindo: So they are ethical, inclusive and focused on improving lines. 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.000 Dee Frewert: Social. 00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.000 Daveed Benjamin: Social problems. 00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:59.000 Micah Nyatindo: and quality of life. 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:05.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah. So this is a different class of problems. We can't… 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.000 Daveed Benjamin: Truly solve this just by making. 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:20.000 Daveed Benjamin: We need to have technical social solutions. And that's what we've been talking about for the last couple of weeks. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:28.000 Daveed Benjamin: In my mind, a really interesting question is to ask. 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: How might 8 billion people become better at sticking together? 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.000 Daveed Benjamin: Anyone have any thoughts on this? 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: You've done some reading, you… we've talked about the MetaWeb. 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:51.000 Dee Frewert: I'm gonna volunteer something, but I think when we have 8 billion people, we all have to… 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:47.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Yeah, can you say it again? 00:25:51.000 --> 00:26:08.000 Dee Frewert: sing off of the same page, that we have a common language, a taxonomy, where we can exchange ideas and begin from. I think part of our big challenge is language and communication. 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:23.000 Dee Frewert: And if we can settle on a universal language that we can synthesize across all these different communities and cultures, we're going to be that much better because we'll be talking about the same things. 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: Esperanto? 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: Esperanto? No, I'm kidding. Have you heard of that? There's a proposal for universal language, but maybe translation at least to start. 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.000 Rick Frewert: I can do pig Latin. 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: Oh! Wait, wait, how does that work? Take Latin… 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:48.000 Leandra Preston: Okay. 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.000 Rick Frewert: Thank you. 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.000 Rick Frewert: ixnay on the whatever thing, remember? 00:26:50.000 --> 00:27:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: That's right. Are there any impediments to 8 billion people thinking together with today's web? 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:15.000 Rick Frewert: I think the Internet is a tool, okay? And you provide access to a tool, and whether people use the tool or not is then up to them and how they use the tool. 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:28.000 Rick Frewert: So, you know, from, you know, again, I'm only into Chapter 3 and you keep screwing me up with so many different ideas, Daveed, that I'm in a migratory mental state. 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:40.000 Rick Frewert: But really, the internet is a tool. We're figuring out how to make the tool useful and safe and whatever those kind of attributes are for everybody. 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:34.000 Micah Nyatindo: I think. 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:40.000 Micah Nyatindo: We come with our thinking together by building and listening to diverse perspectives. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.000 Rick Frewert: you know, and then make it accessible. So securing the tool, enabling the tool. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.000 Micah Nyatindo: You think of him? 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.000 Micah Nyatindo: The lining around people of trust. 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.000 Rick Frewert: and giving access to the tour are two separate things. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.000 Micah Nyatindo: Not this one. 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:59.000 Rick Frewert: So and and then you've got whatever cultural things that that you know are are aspects of the access. 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:07.000 Rick Frewert: So, you know, from our standpoint, I think there's everybody on here is going to make the tool better and safer. 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:21.000 Rick Frewert: And it's already available to everybody. We'll let somebody else worry about getting the accessing devices, the netbooks, or computers, or watches, or whatever, to give people access to this safe and useful place. 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.000 Rick Frewert: That that's I don't know. It's a gut gut feel. 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, well, thank you. And. 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: I would love to hear from someone who hasn't spoken yet. Do you have some thoughts on this? Is there anything in particular with today's web that makes it difficult for us to be thinking together. 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:58.000 Suzanne Sincavage: Yeah, this is Suzanne. I'm going to tag on to what Rick was saying. That was a really good point. I think it's the ability for us as a user to be able to come into consensus about the filters that we use. 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:16.000 Suzanne Sincavage: And, you know, what can be controlled to shape our own digital experiences. So it's coming, having a community where we could decide on these important filters that are needed. 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: Thank you. 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: Any other thoughts? 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: Anyone else have any thoughts on what would today's web may be preventing? Okay, so Micah says, for me, I think we become better at thinking together by building shared understanding, listening to diverse perspectives, communicating openly, and aligning around calling. 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:57.000 Daveed Benjamin: Common goals, a decent consensus on filters. And that's very similar to what Suzanne just said. And Micah also added, when people have trust, context, reliable signals and shared understanding, they can make better decisions and take meaningful action together. 00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: One thing that I wanted to point out is. 00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:10.000 Daveed Benjamin: Today's web is a web of silos. Everything is fractured and fragmented into these. 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: small, or some of them are large, but groupings of interactions that don't know anything about what's happening on any other page, or any other site. So… 00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: It's hard for me to think about how we could ever become good at thinking together. 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:35.000 Daveed Benjamin: If we can't even. 00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:43.000 Daveed Benjamin: break through the silos. So a lot of the work that we've been talking about with the MetaWeb is about how we can. 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:45.000 Daveed Benjamin: Connect. 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:58.000 Daveed Benjamin: connect despite the fact that we're all in silos. And we've come up with the thought that this missing capability is to be able to. 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.000 Daveed Benjamin: Um, essentially… 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.000 Daveed Benjamin: be together. 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: in a layer, because that is the first opportunity for people to even not be fragmented. If we have a layer, it's possible that everyone could actually be in the public layer. 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: of a tool like Canopy. Everybody, all 8 billion of people. 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:38.000 Daveed Benjamin: could actually be in a tool like this, without ever having to create a new identity, without ever having to go to a specific site? Because when you're working with layers. 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: Essentially. 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: You're you're in it. 00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:44.000 Suzanne Sincavage: Mm-hmm. 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: You're in it wherever you are on the web. 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:50.000 Daveed Benjamin: So that that's one way. 00:31:49.000 --> 00:32:00.000 Suzanne Sincavage: David, I think the fastest way to get here is that it has to be trusted, it has to be safe, because today we're not only in silos, but… 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:11.000 Suzanne Sincavage: were bullied, it's threatening, it's insecure, it's, you know, all of these things. If it's led by safety. 00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:14.000 Suzanne Sincavage: Security and trust. 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.000 Suzanne Sincavage: It, it. 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:29.000 Suzanne Sincavage: it becomes a living entity in itself, a safe place for someplace to go. You know, where there isn't any threats, there isn't any harassments, there isn't any scams. Um… 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:46.000 Suzanne Sincavage: And systemic vulnerabilities, which I've experienced this past year. So it has to be a safe place where you just know it is safe where you can go. And I think you get a complete community agreement. 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:49.000 Suzanne Sincavage: That that's the space we want to be in. 00:32:50.000 --> 00:33:00.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, I mean, I totally agree, and I think there's gonna be different communities as well that may want different, slightly different flavors of it, but. 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:01.000 Suzanne Sincavage: Mm-hmm. 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: most communities are going to want something very similar, right? They're going to want trust, safety, transparency, to some extent, privacy, data sovereignty, etc. So. 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.000 Suzanne Sincavage: No. 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: One way to think about this work is that we are. 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:35.000 Daveed Benjamin: Creating the possibility of new human capabilities. And when I say human capability, I mean collective capabilities. So you just mentioned trust. You mentioned security. Identity has an aspect of security. 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: Safety is participation in governance. Contest helps with safety. Trust helps with safety. So what we're saying here is that. 00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: With the metal layer. 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: we can actually extend what humans do. We we can enable. 00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:57.000 Daveed Benjamin: Real trust. 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: In the digital world, we can enable governance as a human capability or a community capability. We can enable a stable identity. 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:14.000 Daveed Benjamin: as a human capability. We can enable the… 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: uh… capability of having context, and being able to participate in agency. And there's other things, too, that… presence, I mean, how could I forget that, right? That… you can have a presence in the digital world. That's a new capability that… 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: We're enabling with a metal layer or we can enable with a metal layer. Consent is that's novel, right? This idea of having a capability, a human capability of consent in the digital world. 00:34:47.000 --> 00:35:01.000 Daveed Benjamin: And not just on one site, but just across the board, making that a capability. That's also interesting. And another capability is not only being accountable, but being able to hold others to be accountable. 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: for their actions. So these are… these are human capabilities that today's web… they… it can't do any of these. I mean… 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:17.000 Daveed Benjamin: You can have a pocket, one silo here or there, that may have some aspects of these. 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: But. 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.000 Daveed Benjamin: You can't have it across the web. 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: That's the difference between what we're… what we're advocating for here is the creation of human capabilities that you can use wherever you are in the digital world. 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: Let's talk a little bit about how this infrastructure evolves. I think we… 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:38.000 Rick Frewert: Thank you. 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: Did this in the first meeting, but I just want to be clear that, so we have this physical infrastructure with data centers, fiber networks, cell towers, satellites, et cetera. This is moving energy. 00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: We have an internet infrastructure layer. 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: That has networks and cloud compute and databases, etc. That's moving information. 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:17.000 Daveed Benjamin: We have a web layer, that's what you experience as today's web, right? It's web, uh, sites, apps, applications, um… 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:22.000 Daveed Benjamin: These are moving interactions. 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: The metal layer… 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: is different. 00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: it helps the civilization understand itself, and it's different than these other layers. These other layers. 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: They, they understand what's beneath them. So they have a, uh, these servers, they have a view of the physical infrastructure. Um, these web applications, they have a view of the internet, internet infrastructure that they can use. 00:36:48.000 --> 00:37:03.000 Daveed Benjamin: The meta layer has a view, not only a view of the web applications and also to a certain extent, the internet infrastructure and protocols, but it also has a view of itself. That's one of the things that makes it different. 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:14.000 Daveed Benjamin: The other thing to note is that these different layers, they all have their different componentry and lexicon. I mean, we call… 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:28.000 Daveed Benjamin: At the bottom, we have things like fiber and network backbones, etc, and the internet infrastructure. We have servers and DNS and the web and applications. We have social and shopping carts. 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:43.000 Daveed Benjamin: In the meta layer, we have provenance, identity, context, community governance, privacy, identity, accountability. So, you see, it's entirely. 00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: different, um, lexicon that we're dealing with, and we're also dealing with self-awareness on this meta layer, which is different than, um. 00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: And it's not to say that the metal layer itself is self-aware, but it allows for, uh, awareness of other, uh, componentry on this same layer. 00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:23.000 Dee Frewert: David, this is a great graphic. It's really evolving. One of the things that I notice is when you say move energy, move information, move interaction. 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:27.000 Dee Frewert: I'm thinking of moving meaning. 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:29.000 Daveed Benjamin: Mmm. 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:43.000 Dee Frewert: centrally for the metal layer itself, where we're coming together, just to be consistent, but I love the graphic representation and how you presented it. 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: So the metal layer moves meaning. I like that, too. Yeah, awesome. 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right. 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: Let's let's talk a little bit about. 00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: Someone who's been a big inspiration for me, and I know Dee as well, and some other people on this call, is a… 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: They're… 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:12.000 Daveed Benjamin: was a visionary. 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: and he… he lived in the late 1800s to the mid-1900s, and, um, his name was Teilhard de Chardin. He… Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. He was a Jesuit priest. 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: Paleontologist, anthropologist, explorer. 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: Author. What wasn't he? Right. I mean, he he did a lot of things. And one of the the more interesting aspects of his work was on what we call the noosphere. And he worked with someone. 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:54.000 Daveed Benjamin: named Kandusky, and they they had this this theory that. 00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: Evolution. 00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: will continue through consciousness. So, consciousness can evolve. Our collective consciousness can evolve. And he saw this… this, um… 00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:34.000 Daveed Benjamin: construct called the Omega Point, and that was not when everything is perfect, not when everyone is completely aligned, but more so where we've evolved to a high level of consciousness and a high level of complexity, and it's able to work together in what he considered to be a convergent consciousness. 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:38.000 Daveed Benjamin: And what's interesting about a convergent consciousness. 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: It… 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: It is the idea that we can coordinate without collapsing diversity. 00:40:47.000 --> 00:41:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: So this is really, for me, a very interesting way of thinking about our problems. What does that mean to coordinate without collapsing diversity? That means… 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:11.000 Daveed Benjamin: if we have… let's say that we've just got two people in this conversation, and it's me and someone, let's say, from China. 00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:12.000 Daveed Benjamin: So. 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:28.000 Daveed Benjamin: If we're going to coordinate, we're going to be having a conversation between the 2 of us. We're and if we're not going to collapse diversity, we're going to be able to bring all of our different perspectives. I'm from the Us. They're from China. We have totally different. 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: um, worldviews and, uh, governance that, that, uh, that we have to adhere to, et cetera, but. 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: Can we come together in a conversation and in some way coordinate where neither of us has to give up who we are? 00:41:48.000 --> 00:42:05.000 Daveed Benjamin: And if you extend that to a higher level and say, well, if you have 8 billion people and we're in all these different groupings and tribes and everything, how can we coordinate in a way that has peace and harmony and. 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:20.000 Daveed Benjamin: Everybody's getting enough food and people are having a right livelihood. How can we do that in a way where everyone can, they can be themselves, they can maintain. 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: Their values, they can, um… 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: present their perspectives and express themselves and be heard and understood, etc. So it's a tall order, right? I mean, we can't even begin to think about doing it right now because we can't even get on the first. 00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:46.000 Daveed Benjamin: We can't even be on the same page speaking the same language at the moment. 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: Um, so… 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: this… 00:42:51.000 --> 00:43:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: Let me step back and speak a little bit about what the newest fear is, just in case there are some people who are not familiar, which probably is the case, unless you've been to one of our earlier presentations, workshops, or you've read a little bit on it. 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:11.000 Daveed Benjamin: So the the the idea is that. 00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:12.000 Daveed Benjamin: the… 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:25.000 Daveed Benjamin: There started out as a geosphere, so that's the rocks, and then a biosphere formed, so that's the animals and us and the plants. 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:36.000 Daveed Benjamin: we externalize, we begin thinking, right? And that's the noosphere. The noosphere is that layer of planetary thought and collective intelligence. 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: And we began in that process of thinking, we started building tools. 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: Out of that, over millennia, we've developed a technosphere, and the technosphere is all the tooling that we have, and that. 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:52.000 Rick Frewert: Yes. 00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:12.000 Daveed Benjamin: in turn has defined our digital noosphere. So the digital noosphere is all the thought that is being captured by our technosphere at the moment, and I would like to just point out. 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:16.000 Daveed Benjamin: that the digital newsfare that we have right now was not planned at all. 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: People had some great ideas in the '80s and even before about how we could connect. And they built the internet. And then in the early '90s, late '80s, that started developing into some ideas about the web. 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: Those started being developed in earnest in 1990, 1991, 92 area. We started having browsers. And basically, you know. we we had that that transition after about 10 years to web from web 1.0, which was publishing. 00:44:52.000 --> 00:45:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: to web 2.0, which was social and mobile. And then we we've moved on to web 3. But none of this was really planned. This is not intentional. So we have what we have from an unintentional. 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: process at the moment. And it is a digital noosphere. 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: Right now, it's mainly what we have on web pages and social media. 00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.000 Daveed Benjamin: But the question is. 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:36.000 Daveed Benjamin: can we become wiser together than apart? Because right now, the way our technosphere works, and our digital noosphere reflects, is… 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: we're essentially doing things more or less on our own. Um, yes, social media has other people, but still, we interact, um, and develop our… the things that we post. 00:45:51.000 --> 00:46:03.000 Daveed Benjamin: on our own, we use AI on our own, we post, sometimes people read it, sometimes they don't, but it's… it's… it's very much… 00:45:58.000 --> 00:45:59.000 Rick Frewert: Thank you. 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: A process where we're, we're interacting with small groups of people in, in silos and the question is, again, can we become wiser together? What does that look like? And. 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:23.000 Daveed Benjamin: The newest fear is it's a vision of. 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: how that can actually happen. 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:34.000 Daveed Benjamin: We, meaning the Metalayer Initiative, has developed what we're calling the Tayyard Test. 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: The Turing test, which was to understand if humans can, excuse me, if machines can mimic humans. Well, we're pretty sure that in many cases that machines can mimic humans very well. 00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:06.000 Daveed Benjamin: Not necessarily saying that in all cases that it can fool everybody, but it can fool most people most of the time, and in fact, I've been seeing some studies that say that. 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: People are more convinced by AI or can be more convinced by certain AIs than other humans. So we're proposing that, okay, well, the Turing test. 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:34.000 Daveed Benjamin: very important, probably the most influential thought experiment ever in AI history, but we need another one. We need one that judges, uh, us. 00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: Are we ready for the power that we are unleashing? And so the Tayyar test is evaluating new systems. 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: And, and us as humanity, and it says, well. 00:47:49.000 --> 00:48:00.000 Daveed Benjamin: If we brought this new system into being, would it afford us more self-awareness? Would it help us see ourselves as a whole? 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:06.000 Daveed Benjamin: Like Carlo just said, would it enable more coordination without coercion? 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:11.000 Daveed Benjamin: Can it help turn insights into aligned action at scale? 00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: Does it provide more voice? Does it allow for the preservation of diversity where people can continue being who they are with their own perspectives and values? 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: Does it… 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: scale accountability with power. So as power grows. 00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:36.000 Daveed Benjamin: does accountability and responsibility grow as well. 00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: This is, um… 00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:43.000 Daveed Benjamin: something that that we're. 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.000 Daveed Benjamin: in process with, and… 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: Umm. 00:48:47.000 --> 00:49:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: we're anticipating doing a fair amount more research on it, but I think the key thing to note is that the meta-layer does very well on the Tayyard test, because it helps us become more self-aware, it helps with coordination without coercion, it preserves… has the potential to preserve diversity. 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: And it can allow for more accountability and responsibility. 00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:29.000 Daveed Benjamin: So what is the meta layer's role then? Well, it's to bring together people, not users, participants, enable them to form communities, enable relationships between different people, communities. 00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: between different pieces of information, between information and interactions, and creating through that a shared context and shared context like shared accountability. 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: Excuse me, shared reality anchors, things that we can all look at and see. 00:49:52.000 --> 00:50:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: This is super important. And this forms perhaps the basis for a new collective intelligence. And I would say that the metal layers real role in this is. 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: to… 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: Build an intentional digital nuisphere that is focused on unlocking collective intelligence, unlocking coordination without collapsing diversity. Unlocking cooperation and collaboration. 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: and people meeting each other, meeting people that they need to meet when they need to meet them. 00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:43.000 Daveed Benjamin: on pages of their common interests and forming relationships and forming shared context that builds knowledge. This is what. 00:50:43.000 --> 00:51:03.000 Daveed Benjamin: we want to do, and what we're striving to do intentionally through this process of desirable properties, defining desirable properties. And then we're going to develop requirements and make architectural decisions and ultimately create a metal layer substrate that allows anyone. 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:14.000 Daveed Benjamin: to easily create metal layer applications that enable coordination, collaboration, interaction, etc. 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: Any questions before we move on from this slide? 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right. 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:25.000 Daveed Benjamin: We talked about some… 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:43.000 Daveed Benjamin: some different human capabilities that we'd like to add. So we had trust and context and accountability. And we were saying that the metal layer enables that. Well, I'd like to bring up another one. And this one, I bring it up separately because it works. 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: Wasn't actually touched upon. Well, it wasn't. 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:57.000 Daveed Benjamin: presented deeply in the book. And there's been a lot of forward progress since the book. 00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:10.000 Daveed Benjamin: both within the MetaLayer initiative, but also in the external work, in the external world, with respect to collective memory, and I want to be clear that. 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:22.000 Daveed Benjamin: this is really about digital artifacts. So, our collective memory is about creating meaningful, durable digital artifacts that. 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: will serve as shared reality anchors, and therefore provide a baseline. 00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: collective memory that is available to everyone, and this can only happen in a meta layer. 00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: And rather than just moving on, I've said, well, hey, we need this new human capability of collective memory. 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:54.000 Daveed Benjamin: Let's talk a little bit about it. 00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:52:56.000 --> 00:53:04.000 Daveed Benjamin: I need someone to quickly tell me an ancient civilization that they're particularly interested in. 00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: One person, just yell it out. 00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:12.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: The Vikings. 00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:17.000 Daveed Benjamin: The Vikings, okay. When were the Vikings? Do you have a sense? 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: The Vikings. 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: Approximately. 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:20.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Oh, gosh, not really. I mean… 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:25.000 Daveed Benjamin: Medieval times, more or less. 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: I am. 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:27.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Before that, right? It was before medieval times. 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.000 Daveed Benjamin: Like 900 or something? 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Yeah. 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: Like, and the ingenuity in building those kinds of boats. 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:41.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: You know, with the tools that they had at the time and, you know, just… 00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:48.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: the architectural feats that they did to be able to survive in those kinds of climates and things. It's very interesting to me. 00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:54.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah. And they also had tremendous success in terms of. 00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:03.000 Daveed Benjamin: war and and conquering other lands. They were forced to be reckoned with for sure. Right? 00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:11.000 Daveed Benjamin: here's something that I'd like to just put out there as a thought experiment. And, you know, maybe someone can comment on this. 00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: What if. 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.000 Daveed Benjamin: Ordinary people. 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: In the times of the Vikings. 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:22.000 Daveed Benjamin: were able to. 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: Preserve… 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:30.000 Daveed Benjamin: their important thoughts for less than the price of a cup of coffee. 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.000 Daveed Benjamin: What would that mean for us? Anyone have any thoughts? 00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:50.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: I think we'd be more advanced with our vessels and things. I would hope less advanced in war. I mean, yes, they were pretty brutal conquerors, but I'm more interested in what they built with what they had and how they survived. 00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:59.000 Valerie Leuchtmann: the redhead gene that makes it hard for anesthesiologists to knock you out, because that would be great to know why. Um, for my son's sake. 00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:15.000 Daveed Benjamin: And so would you agree that if we had, you know, ordinary Vikings preserving information on a regular basis when important things happen, we'd probably know a lot more about them. And then you also pointed out. 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:30.000 Daveed Benjamin: that we might be making decisions differently now or over history, over recorded time, we might have made different decisions because we would have had the more information about how the Vikings. 00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: had approached it. 00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:37.000 Dee Frewert: We would understand their original intent because they would write that down. 00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:40.000 Dee Frewert: And and the purpose and what? 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:45.000 Dee Frewert: issues they dealt with in trying to solve a problem of their time. 00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:52.000 Dee Frewert: And I think today, when we think about Vikings or any other civilization, we're largely guessing. 00:55:52.000 --> 00:56:04.000 Dee Frewert: Beginning with time period, beginning with, you know, just the breadcrumbs that are left for us to look at today. And I think if they had the… 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:06.000 Dee Frewert: the capability of… 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:24.000 Dee Frewert: tracking and preserving those, that knowledge at the, at the point in time that it was all happening, it would be a much richer exercise for us to look at that and, and learn from it and base our current decisions on, on real facts. 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:28.000 Dee Frewert: that they themselves, the original authors, put down. 00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:31.000 Daveed Benjamin: Thank you. Yes. 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:34.000 Daveed Benjamin: Anyone else have any other thoughts about this? 00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: One other aspect of the thought experiment. What if. 00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: We had that capability. 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:54.000 Daveed Benjamin: Or let's actually put it, stay back in the Vikings. 00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: Okay. 00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:12.000 Daveed Benjamin: Is it also possible that the Vikings would behave differently if they knew that the other Vikings and maybe even perhaps other peoples were preserving information? 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:28.000 Daveed Benjamin: on a regular basis that was important to them. Like, I guess what I'm saying is, would the Vikings and other peoples, would they actually have a different culture if everybody was preserving important information? 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: What do you think? Anybody? 00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:40.000 Dee Frewert: I think they would. One, because they… 00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:45.000 Dee Frewert: would benefit from the shared intelligence that they're gaining. 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.000 Dee Frewert: You know, maybe they… 00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:59.000 Dee Frewert: went through some fortification, and they wrote that down, and then the Vikings wanted to actually beef up their fortification, they could learn from… from them. 00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:06.000 Dee Frewert: And so learning will accelerate the engineering and design process for them. 00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:11.000 Dee Frewert: But but I also think that it might also. 00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:17.000 Dee Frewert: do the opposite of, you know, we… we don't want to be like them. We want to preserve our… 00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:29.000 Dee Frewert: cultural identity and just use it as a source of comparison, but not necessarily of adoption. 00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:35.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, no, great point, and I want to add in one more thing. 00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: And this is my belief. 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: If the people in the Viking era, Vikings and non-Vikings, knew that other people. 00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: from themselves would be recording information, and also that everybody would have access to all the information, I think that they might. 00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:17.000 Daveed Benjamin: actually act differently like in an in an argument or a conversation that you know some kind of discourse with some type of controversy is different. If you know that the person you're having that conversation with is going to record it. And it's also different. 00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: If you know that you both have access to the same facts, you have the same reality anchors, like our, our conversation, their conversation is going to be different because they, they know. 00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:26.000 Rick Frewert: Thank you. 00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: That they have to reference the same information that they know you have access to. 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: And I guess my, oh, go ahead. 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:46.000 Suzanne Sincavage: Safety impact is much different than. 00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:48.000 Suzanne Sincavage: Then, you know… 00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:57.000 Suzanne Sincavage: saving the context. So I think the meta layer would give it context. 00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:02.000 Suzanne Sincavage: And that would contribute to authenticity of… 00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:00.000 Rick Frewert: Yep. 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:04.000 Suzanne Sincavage: of the data. 01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yep. 01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:17.000 Rick Frewert: I'm just. I had a thought come to mind. So if we have just looking at one particular currently a silo like the thing that comes to mind is. 01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:31.000 Rick Frewert: is the, uh, the COVID vaccines, okay? So there's… there's all sorts of controversy over, um, of those, and there's all sorts of dialogue that didn't happen in the past, but, you know, could happen now. 01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:46.000 Rick Frewert: and and reference articles to support positions on either one side or the other side. Opinion pieces, dialogue posts like like you just have a conversation. So you've got you know, tweets. 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:52.000 Rick Frewert: if you will, or or maybe something a little bit bigger, like a Facebook post, maybe some kind of. 01:00:52.000 --> 01:01:01.000 Rick Frewert: posting of of whatever. So all that stuff is in this one currently a silo of of on a website. 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:05.000 Rick Frewert: Well, if if you look beyond. 01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:11.000 Rick Frewert: you know, a few weeks, and you go out 10 years. The quantity of those posts. 01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:13.000 Rick Frewert: is gonna be… 01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:15.000 Rick Frewert: You know, it's seven figures. 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:31.000 Rick Frewert: And so there's nobody that's going to to read through that 7 figure quantity of posts. And you're gonna need something like AI to to sort through it and and summarize it for you. Can that be done? Can it be done? 01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:35.000 Rick Frewert: accurately and successfully, that's great. 01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:42.000 Rick Frewert: But that now you now you basically spread that out to the entire width of the of the. 01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:44.000 Rick Frewert: Of the Internet. 01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:58.000 Rick Frewert: And it's like, holy smokes, man, that's a lot of… a lot of drivel that's gonna be out there that needs to be summarized and categorized and be made accessible some way, and… and the sheer quantity of that stuff is… is, uh… 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:05.000 Rick Frewert: You know, it's gonna be hard for me to to get my hands around as to how that actually gets dealt with. 01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:14.000 Rick Frewert: in the… in the metal layer, you know, in terms of being able to access information through the metal layer, and have the metal layer add value. 01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:17.000 Rick Frewert: To, to, um. 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:18.000 Suzanne Sincavage: Meaning, yeah. 01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:21.000 Rick Frewert: To sort through all that kind of stuff. Make it available, but sort through it. 01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:28.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, I mean, you make a great point, and I think that's one of the reasons that AI will be integral. 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: to certain aspects of the metal layer, and at the same time we just want to make sure that we don't give all the agents to agency to AI and. 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: We remain, uh… 01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:46.000 Daveed Benjamin: with a human centered focus. I think. 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:46.000 Rick Frewert: Mm. 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:47.000 Rick Frewert: No. 01:02:46.000 --> 01:03:05.000 Daveed Benjamin: I would… I will sum up this piece to say that preservation can definitely change behavior. It can change how we view situations, the intention that we bring into the situation, and ultimately can change culture as we are, uh. 01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:11.000 Daveed Benjamin: preserving more and more information. And Rick makes a a great. 01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:14.000 Daveed Benjamin: A great, great point. 01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:17.000 Daveed Benjamin: I we would end up with. 01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:25.000 Daveed Benjamin: so much information right like it's too much. It's already too much information. But here's the thing. 01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:38.000 Daveed Benjamin: We're beginning to think about what we're calling memory stewardship. This is covered by the new desirable property 2020 window. 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:42.000 Daveed Benjamin: Desirable Property 22, which… 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: is. 01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: what is it? It's something in epistemic continuity. So digital artifacts in epistemic continuity, I believe. I'm not totally sure, but that's easily find outable. But the point here is that. 01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:04.000 Daveed Benjamin: It's not so much now about… 01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:16.000 Daveed Benjamin: um, like, just saving the information, because you can do that in social media, and as Rick was saying, we end up with a ton of it, is figuring out what actually. 01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:31.000 Daveed Benjamin: deserves to survive? What information should be preserved? What information do we want to make sure is available a decade from now, two decades from now, 10 decades from now, three millennia from now? 01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: That's the thing that, uh, we are now focused with. We're not… we're not having any problems saving information from an ephemeral standpoint, but we… 01:04:44.000 --> 01:05:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: have now the curation opportunity to decide what we actually want to preserve, because everything that's on this web right now. 1st of all, it doesn't all deserve to be preserved, and it's not going to be preserved. A lot of it isn't going to be preserved just because. 01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: how the web is organized and structured at the moment. 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: I've been playing… playing with an idea. This is just… this is just a parenthetical thought I wanted to put out there. Um… 01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:36.000 Daveed Benjamin: I'm really interested in doing an experiment where I essentially preserve a piece of information every day, something that I think is particularly important. 01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: and deserves to be preserved for future. 01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:50.000 Daveed Benjamin: future generations. And I'm just wondering, I haven't quite made the commitment to it yet, but. 01:05:50.000 --> 01:06:10.000 Daveed Benjamin: My hypothesis is, if we were to do this, save, preserve information on a regular basis, that it would actually create some very interesting dynamics. So it's an experiment that I'm very interested. 01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: in… in doing, and if there's anyone else who happens to think this would be an… an interesting thing to try, uh, I… I would welcome, uh, communication around it, and we could… we could… 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: Now, do an experiment. 01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:31.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right. Back on track. 01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:36.000 Daveed Benjamin: We've been talking a lot about capabilities today. 01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: and really extending human capabilities. 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:45.000 Daveed Benjamin: I know it's been more than three that we've talked about, but… 01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:50.000 Daveed Benjamin: I think we can zoom out and think of… 01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: three new capabilities that some of these aspects of the meta layer are going to help with. 01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: And they cover the larger group of capabilities that I talked about earlier. So I'm just going to say AI. 01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: can help us think. So that's what Rick was just talking about. It can help us do synthesis and pattern matching. 01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:27.000 Daveed Benjamin: It can help us evaluate things. It can help us do a lot, right? The meta layer, on the other hand, it helps us coordinate. 01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:43.000 Daveed Benjamin: Because right now we're all in these silos and we can't coordinate across the silos effectively at the moment. Memory stewardship, which we were just talking about, so digital artifacts, et cetera, they help us remember. 01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: And. 01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: remembering is very important to coordinating and thinking, right? I mean, if you can't remember, you don't have a good memory base, then, you know, how are you going to think very well? If you can't remember, how are you going to coordinate over time? 01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: Together, these all, uh, provide the conditions for human flourishing. Does that mean if we create a metal layer that everybody's gonna flourish? Absolutely not. 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:15.000 Daveed Benjamin: Doesn't mean that. But what I am optimistic is if we can… 01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: push this forward and. 01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: Define very strong desirable properties. 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: and then translate those into requirements, then ultimately into a substrate of code that enables this coordination and allows for bounded AI to help us think, and it remembers things. 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: it essentially provides the capacity and capability for memory stewardship, that these things coming together. 01:08:51.000 --> 01:09:00.000 Daveed Benjamin: This is a recipe for human flourishing, and we have that opportunity now. 01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:01.000 Daveed Benjamin: This is… 01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: This is what I'm seeing. Does anyone have any thoughts, comments, reflections, questions? 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:21.000 Dee Frewert: You had a diagram earlier, well, a list where you ended up with intentional digital noosphere. And I think when you map that out. 01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:24.000 Dee Frewert: in the three bubbles. 01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:27.000 Dee Frewert: You're you're actually. 01:09:27.000 --> 01:09:31.000 Dee Frewert: moving towards that design. 01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:47.000 Dee Frewert: And when you have AI by itself, because this this is this graphic here is is super in that. It's it simplifies all the conversations we've had around how AI will enable us to think. 01:09:47.000 --> 01:10:04.000 Dee Frewert: think better, with more convenience, with more efficiencies, and so forth. But then, when you look at the meta layer, it helps us coordinate. But you still need to enable the power of AI to help with that coordination. And that's that bounded. 01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:10.000 Dee Frewert: AI so it doesn't just go rogue, you know, without having some, some. 01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:28.000 Dee Frewert: really strong guardrails there. And then I still think you need AI to help you with the memory stewardship, but that also adds in some of the what we're calling current capabilities of preservation. 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:36.000 Dee Frewert: so that we can anchor some of our foundational understanding. 01:10:36.000 --> 01:10:41.000 Dee Frewert: And so that that doesn't get altered, but it can get. 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:54.000 Dee Frewert: interpreted with layers above it. So there's another area where AI can be utilized again as a tool to help us get to that. 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:55.000 Dee Frewert: that… 01:10:55.000 --> 01:10:58.000 Dee Frewert: real, uh… 01:10:58.000 --> 01:11:07.000 Dee Frewert: optimal design, an intentional design for a nose digital noosphere. 01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:16.000 Dee Frewert: I brought up in several sessions ago the notion of noospheric threading. 01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:22.000 Dee Frewert: where, you know, maybe an idea is. 01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:25.000 Dee Frewert: in parallel being… 01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:40.000 Dee Frewert: conceived in different communities. How do you… how do you bring that together more powerfully so that we're learning from both of those communities that are concerned with that concept or that idea? 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:27.000 Rick Frewert: Okay. 01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:41.000 Dee Frewert: And. 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:46.000 Dee Frewert: the threading that's needed to say where it originated. 01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:57.000 Dee Frewert: not in just time and place, but but the credible sources that were contributing to that. How can they come together? And and they didn't know. 01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:03.000 Dee Frewert: or find each other other than through this meta web. 01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:11.000 Dee Frewert: It's a beautiful story if we can connect those potential collaborations. 01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:22.000 Dee Frewert: Uh, from the get-go and bridge their… their learning and understanding and future work together. And if AI can enable all of that, that… 01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:29.000 Dee Frewert: That seems like that's the most ideal scenario, is that we share when we want to. 01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:34.000 Dee Frewert: I did put a note up in in the chat that I can see where some. 01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:40.000 Dee Frewert: societies or communities may not want to openly share their intelligence. 01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:50.000 Dee Frewert: For whatever reason, I threw out a few not so altruistic motivations there, but we have to be cognizant of that as well. 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:54.000 Dee Frewert: That some things are not going to be out there for. 01:12:54.000 --> 01:13:08.000 Dee Frewert: whatever, intellectual property, some advantages, some, you know, there might be some profit considerations and so forth that you're not going to find readily available. We just need to know how to deal with that when we get to it. 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:03.000 Rick Frewert: Hmm. 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, I mean, I think you make a lot of really good points, and one of them makes me think that this diagram might even be better if all three of the circles were overlapping and you had kind of a part in the middle where all three. 01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:40.000 Daveed Benjamin: overlap. And you have the yeah. I think you all probably can picture what I'm talking about. But it it basically says, yeah, that that the AI, the Meta layer and the memory stewardship are all they. They're needed. 01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: for each other to to actually work best in the way for human flourishing. 01:13:48.000 --> 01:14:03.000 Daveed Benjamin: Let's see. So yeah, in terms of the some communities not wanting to share. It's not only going to be the profit motive and other similar, but also there is a trend. 01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:20.000 Daveed Benjamin: right now through the Internet for people to be retreating to smaller spaces where it's it's it's not as many people. It's more familiar people, and it's more people of of greater alignment. So. 01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: That is certainly also going to be a reason why not everything will be shared. That being said, some of the things that we're envisioning with respect to the metal layer, like bridges, they they transcend community. There's. 01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:41.000 Daveed Benjamin: I I believe that there's. 01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:53.000 Daveed Benjamin: at the moment, my current thinking is that there's no reason for there to be private bridges, although there could be some. But you know. 01:14:53.000 --> 01:15:00.000 Daveed Benjamin: It's something that we we probably over time as a community need to deal with. But my. 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:03.000 Daveed Benjamin: my desire is for. 01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: you know, pretty much all bridges to be available. I guess if someone's creating, you know something, you know something personal in their own personal graph. I guess that might that might be okay. But anyway, yeah, you make a good point. 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:24.000 Daveed Benjamin: And, it is something that I think over time we're going to see. 01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:29.000 Daveed Benjamin: We're gonna understand that better. And we're gonna be able to. 01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: we're gonna probably want to create ways for people to create, to share information that has been developed within. 01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:45.000 Daveed Benjamin: more private communities, and that may mean that… 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, I don't actually… I don't want to go too much further into that, but I do want to just say I think it's something that we can… 01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:54.000 Daveed Benjamin: Over time… 01:15:54.000 --> 01:16:01.000 Dee Frewert: We need to acknowledge that that may be a case that we need to consider. 01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:56.000 Daveed Benjamin: As a committee. 01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yes. 01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:03.000 Dee Frewert: No. 01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: Absolutely. Okay, so what are we talking? We're really talking about a human-centered pro-social future. I think pretty much all of us know what human-centered is, right? I would say human-centered means that. 01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:35.000 Daveed Benjamin: The humans have the rights. We have a right to privacy, data sovereignty, transparency, safety, context, consent, all these things. If we have those rights, then it's a human-centered environment. 01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:42.000 Daveed Benjamin: If it's if it's focused on making sure that we are afforded. 01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: those rights, then it's good, right? And pro-social, in my mind, means that the whole purpose of it is to create positivity in the world. 01:16:51.000 --> 01:17:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: Well, we want to create a Internet that's trustworthy. We want to create one that's participatory where people have agency. We want to create one that has enduring aspects that has a collective memory that can be the collective memory that. 01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: Bottom line's our collective thinking, our collective intelligence. 01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:15.000 Daveed Benjamin: So. 01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: I invite you, we invite you, the people who've been meeting for the last year as the Metalayer Guild invites you to join us. There's room for all kinds of people, technical, non-technical. 01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: builders, educators, community organizers, artists, etc. We need it all. And the Guild is really just an indication that you're available and interested in participating in some aspect of. 01:17:49.000 --> 01:18:08.000 Daveed Benjamin: the MetaLayer work. There's many different verticals. You can go on the GovHub and see that you can participate in the OverWeb, in Canopy, which is the first MetaLayer tool, in the MetaWeb layer, which is the big one that's focused on. 01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: which essentially the whole space above the web. But that particular layer, from a governance standpoint, is focused on the desirable properties, and we'd love to to have you all join us. This link goes into the Metalayer Guild, where you can just. 01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:37.000 Daveed Benjamin: express your interest and and join on the on our governance hub. We're just opening this up right now. It's not the only way, I think. 01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:51.000 Daveed Benjamin: if someone is able to put the Discord link in the chat, because I actually think that that would be a very helpful link, and just another way to, um… 01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: bring yourself into this… this community, into the Guild. 01:18:55.000 --> 01:19:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: So anyone can join. And really, it's all about just having some intention to participate and help with the shaping of this next level of the Internet. 01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: There's many different ways to contribute. 01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:30.000 Daveed Benjamin: Of course, for most people, you're going to need to learn something. You know what we're talking about. Many of you on this call probably are somewhere already down the learning path and beginning to participate and potentially to start contributing. 01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:47.000 Daveed Benjamin: contribution that could be providing ideas about how to revise the desirable properties. It could be coming up with a new idea for a metal layer application. It could actually be building a new smart tag. So there's. 01:19:47.000 --> 01:20:03.000 Daveed Benjamin: Many different things that you could do. And what we'd like to see is people progressing from learning, participating, contributing, and then beginning to help lead and bringing other people in and helping mentor other folks. 01:20:03.000 --> 01:20:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: actually what we're calling the steward role, which is someone who is participating at a very high level, providing leadership when necessary, providing contribution. 01:20:19.000 --> 01:20:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: Essentially, they are helping steward some aspect of the metal layer so that it can express and manifest in its highest level. 01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:46.000 Daveed Benjamin: And how can you contribute? Well, ideas. Ideas are a starting point. But you can also begin to prototype things, you can create artifacts, you can, um… 01:20:46.000 --> 01:21:01.000 Daveed Benjamin: Ultimately, if things start working, we can create a governance pattern around them. We can create learning loops. We can form community practices. So there's a lot that can be done. And the important thing is that we're progressing from. 01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:06.000 Daveed Benjamin: Understanding what the meta layer can be. 01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:07.000 Daveed Benjamin: Uh, to… 01:21:07.000 --> 01:21:21.000 Daveed Benjamin: what it actually… what we can create, how we can create this new commons, this new commons that provides the capabilities that we've been speaking about today. 01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:32.000 Dee Frewert: And David, may I just add that that continuum from understanding to creating is also overlaid with a parallel where. 01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:43.000 Dee Frewert: We're asking people to challenge and ask questions. That will help us address whether this is easy to consume. 01:21:43.000 --> 01:22:00.000 Dee Frewert: the information that we're presenting and easy to engage because we wanted highly participatory and easy to engage at any level of understanding. So there doesn't have to be this. 01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:15.000 Dee Frewert: requisite that that's really heavy. You want to get involved because one you're curious, and you've got questions that also helps us sort of push, push the envelope in terms of. 01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:35.000 Dee Frewert: Uh, simplifying the information so it's easily, uh, it's, it's self-explanatory is what we, we ultimately want to get to so that we can get into the, the more complex, uh, areas and the, the more creative design areas where we can all have fun. 01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:51.000 Dee Frewert: realizing some of the ideas that we just come up with in conversation. It's pretty amazing. And I just shout out to David. There are some things that I've experienced being a learner on the meta web course, and I would just. 01:22:52.000 --> 01:22:53.000 Dee Frewert: Okay. 01:22:53.000 --> 01:23:00.000 Dee Frewert: text David and then he builds it in and makes it. 01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:22.000 Dee Frewert: makes it very doable to continue to provide those kinds of enhancements, if you will. And it's just all related to that human interface. We want it to be smooth. We want it to be self-explanatory, very intuitive, so that every day when you're participating on the meta web. 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:37.000 Dee Frewert: you… it's… it's very natural for you to want to contribute ideas and not get technically bound up in, where do I find this button and that button? But that ease of use. 01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:55.000 Dee Frewert: is informed by maybe the simplest questions that you have, like, where do I do this? And that helps us. So please don't think that there's a high requirement for you to engage in this process. We want everybody's attention. 01:23:55.000 --> 01:23:57.000 Dee Frewert: and ideas. 01:23:57.000 --> 01:24:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Dee. And I want to also say that. 01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: We are we're striving for ease of use and we're also a work in progress. So some of you may have noticed that there were times when the canopy wasn't working or the login didn't work. 01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: Uh, we've been doing our best to keep that up and running. We noticed some things this morning, so if you were having some… any issues this morning, please do a hard refresh, and you should be good. 01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:38.000 Daveed Benjamin: And as things happen, if there are any issues, please use the… 01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:44.000 Daveed Benjamin: support tab within the coursework activity. 01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: To… to reach out and let us know where you're having issues. 01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:58.000 Dee Frewert: Okay, we have, uh, 7 minutes, David, so you wanna wrap us up and then prime us for next week. 01:24:58.000 --> 01:25:01.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yeah, so we're we're almost done. 01:25:01.000 --> 01:25:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: One of the more important things that we've been working on in the last two years is the desirable properties. You've probably heard me mention it. 01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:30.000 Daveed Benjamin: We we started from a challenge by Vint Cerf on September 16, th 2024, and he said, if you want to create this new thing with this new capabilities, then you need to define the desirable properties of what do you want it to be? 01:25:32.000 --> 01:25:48.000 Daveed Benjamin: we we took his advice, and it's 21 months in the making. But we have a set of 22 desirable properties. They are on the governance hub, the Gov hub live, and you can. 01:25:48.000 --> 01:26:05.000 Daveed Benjamin: help us evolve those. We love your insights on those specific desirable properties that you're interested. Some of you might be interested in identity, others in safety, some in data, data, sovereignty or context or privacy, etc. 01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:16.000 Daveed Benjamin: All of the desirable properties need attention, and we're looking in the next week to sign people up to. 01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:18.000 Daveed Benjamin: work groups that are, um… 01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:34.000 Daveed Benjamin: focused on a specific desirable property that you're interested in. We're looking for co-leads and and team members for the work groups. And these work groups will essentially be the the group that. 01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: helps take the current point 7 7 version 0 point 7 7 version of the desirable properties and all the submissions that we're going to get from the the. 01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: desirable properties challenge which starts on July 16, th going through August 30.th So 45 days. 01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:11.000 Daveed Benjamin: We're gonna get a bunch of input, hopefully a lot of suggestions about how to improve them, comments, and also specific, uh, recommendations of changes. 01:27:11.000 --> 01:27:28.000 Daveed Benjamin: And the work group is going to then use our community AI model to synthesize those and make decisions on what goes in the version one of the desirable properties. 01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:33.000 Daveed Benjamin: of a metal layer, which will be published in. 01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: on September 16, th 20 September 18, th 2024. Excuse me, 2026. So basically, 2 years after the initial meeting, we're going to be doing that. And if you want to find out more about desirable properties, go to desirableproperties.org. There's still some little changes that we'll be making. 01:27:55.000 --> 01:28:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: with respect to the on-chain aspects of it, but for the most part, it has a lot of information there that you can find out about the challenge. 01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:26.000 Daveed Benjamin: And I mentioned the Metalayer Summit. We will be putting out the 1st version of the desirable properties at the Metalayer Summit. You can scan this code. We're we're opening up the the event list now. So yeah, if you. 01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:42.000 Daveed Benjamin: have a point later on today. Please go ahead and join the event. It's gonna be historic, because, like I said, we're not only going to be doing a retrospective on what has been accomplished in. 01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:58.000 Daveed Benjamin: the metal layer initiative. In the 1st couple of years we'll be demonstrating where we're at with canopy, and we'll also be launching this desirable properties book, which I hope many of you will be contributing contributors to, and. 01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:13.000 Daveed Benjamin: That will be through the Desirable Properties Challenge that I just mentioned, and we'll be sending more information to people who are registered in the course and who have been attending these meetings. 01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:20.000 Daveed Benjamin: One last note about the certification course. So. 01:29:21.000 --> 01:29:22.000 Daveed Benjamin: The… 01:29:22.000 --> 01:29:39.000 Daveed Benjamin: Tomorrow is the last day to register for cohort one, which is kind of historic, right? I mean, it's the first cohort of the certification course. So there's going to be a little goodness for being part of cohort one. 01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:45.000 Daveed Benjamin: So if you know anyone who might want to join this self-paced. 01:29:45.000 --> 01:29:49.000 Daveed Benjamin: course. Please let them know to register by tomorrow. 01:29:49.000 --> 01:30:01.000 Daveed Benjamin: Everybody who has either already registered or who registers by tomorrow will have up to July 31st to complete. 01:30:01.000 --> 01:30:05.000 Daveed Benjamin: their course. That means turning in everything. 01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:15.000 Daveed Benjamin: by the 31st of July, so that we can issue your certificate, and if you would like to. 01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:32.000 Daveed Benjamin: register for the course. You can use the code digital mason for the special cohort. One price that will also extend to cohort 2, and if that is too much for you now. 01:30:32.000 --> 01:30:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: because you're from a developing country, or you have some circumstances that require some help, please contact me. Also, we do have a discount for people who are Internet Society members, so again, please contact me. You can go to this link, course.metawebbook.com, or you can. 01:30:52.000 --> 01:30:55.000 Daveed Benjamin: Uh, scan this QR code. 01:30:58.000 --> 01:30:59.000 Daveed Benjamin: Wow. 01:30:58.000 --> 01:31:02.000 Dee Frewert: Another great session, David. Thank you very much. 01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:12.000 Daveed Benjamin: Well, thank you all for being here. Thank you, Dee, for your support and keeping this thing moving, and. 01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:19.000 Daveed Benjamin: Let's see, are there any comments that you think that we need to address before we get off? 01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:35.000 Dee Frewert: I think you are going to receive another invitation for next week. So we can do just an open Q&A. No more presentations from us, but just a Q&A, and then we're going to talk more deeply about this. 01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:50.000 Dee Frewert: desirable properties, because that's the next level of deep dive that we want to take you through and get you involved in. So that's what what's going to happen for the next week's agenda at 1130. 01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:52.000 Daveed Benjamin: Yes, thank you. 01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:52.000 Dee Frewert: Uh, Pacific. 01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:58.000 Daveed Benjamin: So the last thought I want to leave you with is the letter… the metal layer doesn't tell humanity where to go. 01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:02.000 Daveed Benjamin: It helps us find our way there together. 01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:04.000 Dee Frewert: Indeed. 01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:09.000 Daveed Benjamin: And I'm super excited about going there with all of you. 01:32:09.000 --> 01:32:17.000 Daveed Benjamin: And look forward to seeing you next week and also in the book, in Canopy. 01:32:18.000 --> 01:32:25.000 Daveed Benjamin: So thanks so much, everybody. Have a great rest of your week. And yeah, we'll see you in Canopy. 01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:28.000 Dee Frewert: Bye, everyone. 01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:30.000 Renad Baomar: Bye! Thank you for an amazing session. 01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:38.000 Daveed Benjamin: Thanks, everyone. If you want to open up your mic and say bye, you can. 01:32:40.000 --> 01:32:42.000 Daveed Benjamin: All right. 01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:42.000 a(h)jay t: Thanks, guys. 01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:45.000 Renad Baomar: Bye. 01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:46.000 Daveed Benjamin: Bye bye. 01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:46.000 Dee Frewert: Bye-bye.